Curse

Rent · Jul 29, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

The Elementalist's attributes are designed to flat out be the highest damage dealing character (in most cases) you can play.

Too bad they aren't. While we're buffing Channeling, can we buff Fire?

Saphatorael · Jul 29, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I'd like to see some kind of seasonal items storage as well... my storage is literally packed with egg nog, candy canes, absynthe, witchesbrew and other crap that i'll actually never use, but that i WILL keep for just the sake of the idea that i ever had a good time with those events. Including helmets please, atm i don't even have 5 free item slots on each char (5 PvE chars!)

And no, i'm not going to buy a slot to get a mule character...
The idea of having more storage with each char sounds like a great idea, same for the keyring, perhaps even some armor backpack thing (since i carry 7 helmets (seasonal items ftw) on my warrior, a different armor set on both my monk and my mesmer, and so on, and so on...

I'm hoping that there will be any fix soon, since my characters are just bulking with items that i just don't want to get rid of (souvenirs or actively used items)

zaza · Jul 29, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrynn

EDIT:
Forgot to add something:
The ability to reroll IN PVP TOWNS (with pvp only characters) would be nice too, talk to a NPC and can swap runes, weapons, armor, secondary, etc.
The recently added secondary changer in great temple is long overdue IMO.

Totally agreed... but we just got an update for storage so my guess it'll be at least another month till we get more

TheLordOfBlah · Jul 29, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Wrynn, I had a response to the bit about 15k armor, however my edit didnt didnt get applied for whatever reason. So here is my response to that:

Hold the first stack of 250 whatever in your mat storage and then the other 100 or whatever ammount on your character. You seem to be using something that uses more than one stack (in this case 15k armor) as an excuse to get permanent storage of 1000 of that item
...
You're right, getting 1000 wood doesnt take long to get at all... which in a way proves my point in why you dont need that much space for that much. get all the mats for your character all at once and ther buy the armor, after all, you said its not that hard to do.

I still disagree with you.

Wrynn · Jul 30, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I understand what you are saying, but see it from this side, you have 6+ characters (i now have 8 slots on my account, potentially more coming soon)
Consider the most common needs for caster armor -> Cloth. With all my characters, I could easily burn though 1000 cloth in a short period of time.
If they want people to look forward to getting 15k armor, then why not make the storage able to handle your needs, I would think most of the heavily active pve'ers (and even pvp'ers who like using their pves for pvp, such as me, its not just buying armor for looks, but also buying for functionality. Most casters could, and even SHOULD have at least two suits of armor, at least multiple chest pieces. My monk has full ascetic, then judges and wanderers chest and legs, canthan 15k chest / legs coming soon.
All Im saying, is rather than give us the bare minimum, give us the max, even if 90% of the game is never going to use it, its still better to have MORE than we need, than less than what a lot of people will need.

I for one, would rather see storage space for everything, way more than ill ever use, than something thats too small for even a pathetic farmer like myself.

Flopjack · Jul 30, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Wait, so from the old NR hexes and enchantments just.. failed? What do you mean by "dropped"?

I misread your post, it sounded like you said IWAY doesn't not bring EW, and I didn't see them use it.

Wards-

Well I guess we simply don't agree with each other with the Wards. All I know is that I have seen how effective those Wards work against IWAY, but I guess your IWAY teams aren't effected by them.

Ritualist-

First off, I never said: YOU SHOULD USE THESE EXACT SKILLS IN YOUR SKILLS BAR!!!! I never listed a rit skill bar at all! I never said spirit spammers shouldn't use ritual lord in IWAY groups. I never said to mix QZ and Serpents. I never said for a Ritualist to use 4 attributes. I have seen groups work with QZ and other ranger spirits would screw over most groups in such a way that it didn't screw themselves over. All I have been saying the entire time is not to rule out skils so easily especially when you have not experimented with them.

Then you also say: "Yeah, send out your warrior with no self heals to get slaughtered! He will get slaughtered by a trap bomb! He will die to an IWAY warrior! He will get killed by the necros!" I can easily say that my ?/? can kill the order necros. The same way you say your IWAY people can kill my W/? or ?/?.

You also keep saying I cannot argue about OoA because I don't see what YOU see in how it is a broken skill. Have you ever tried to use channeling magic or just looked at it? Have you ever tried ANYthing but the mainstream? Or do you assume what people tell you is the only/best possibilities?

Signet of Creation -

Your right, a person getting hit by lots of damage, signet of creation's regen wouldn't do much. But Union, for one, only takes 15 damage or less each time it works, 7 regen = 28 health a second. That is bound to keep the spirit alive longer.

Me ignoring updates-

No, but I guess you like to make your own updates up. 40% is max cap of healing, which can still be passed. And 50% is max cap of skill recharge, which can be passed as well. Check out the updates page to see for yourself.

Your right, I won't see a Rit in top 100 guilds using Signet of Spirits, but that doesn't mean that Elite doesn't have it's place.

I think I addressed everything, if not, repeat it or tell me.

Fire doesn't even need buffing. It's damage is nuts the way it is. On level 16 almost every spell damage for over 100, easily. Not to mention most the those spells are Area of Effect, so they usually hit mroe then one target. I do however think the Mind spells need to lose the Exhaustion.

Rent · Jul 30, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Wait, so from the old NR hexes and enchantments just.. failed? What do you mean by "dropped"?

Previously, when NR was cast, all enchants and hexes in its radius were removed. Dropped.

Quote:

Fire doesn't even need buffing. It's damage is nuts the way it is. On level 16 almost every spell damage for over 100, easily. Not to mention most the those spells are Area of Effect, so they usually hit mroe then one target. I do however think the Mind spells need to lose the Exhaustion.

In PvE, maybe. But the entire attribute, save for two or three skills, is by and large worthless in any section of PvP. Air has Windborne, Blinding, and Orb. Earth has some great support, and so does Water.

Fire spells simply don't do enough damage for the insane costs, cast times, areas of effect, and recharges they possess.

Premium Unleaded · Jul 30, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Added to the old NR buisness was that you could literally spam it, ie. 8+ copies of it (and other spirits of your choice) down at any one time and they also benefited from fertile's effects.

Flopjack · Jul 30, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

What few Fire spells are worthy of PvP then?

Rent · Jul 30, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

What few Fire spells are worthy of PvP then?

Fireball's decent, and Rodgort's Invocation is pretty good as well. I can't think of anything else that is worth play.

Boy this is kind of offtopic.

Evilsod · Jul 30, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Fireball's decent, and Rodgort's Invocation is pretty good as well. I can't think of anything else that is worth play.

Boy this is kind of offtopic.

So you've never seen Starbursters?

Seriously Wrynn... how much ranting do you want? The thread name says RATIONAL and you want 10000 storage limits... Who the **** needs that much of any 1 material. 250 is fine... Its not gonna stop the stupid hoarding i had on my necro with over 4000 wood. But its stores what you need. Why exactly are you whining that 'it costs more than that for any 1 suit'? Since when did you buy 15k sets for all your characters at the same time? And if you did, why would you need to store your materials if you could simply buy them with all your money...

Dye storage... tbh i don't care. Its 8 slots. 8 slots on a storage character isn't much.

Keys... yeah it'd be nice but theres not really any reason to be holding keys when you don't intend to use them.

Extra storage slots i'd agree with though. 20slots for 4 characters was ok, 20 slots for (soon to be) 8 characters is not enough. But if your've just bought 3 more slots... storage character anyone?

Wrynn · Jul 30, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Wards-

Well I guess we simply don't agree with each other with the Wards. All I know is that I have seen how effective those Wards work against IWAY, but I guess your IWAY teams aren't effected by them.

Again, you missed the point. IWAY has trappers. Trappers punish you for ward camping.
I dont see how that is difficult to understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Ritualist-

First off, I never said: YOU SHOULD USE THESE EXACT SKILLS IN YOUR SKILLS BAR!!!! I never listed a rit skill bar at all! I never said spirit spammers shouldn't use ritual lord in IWAY groups. I never said to mix QZ and Serpents. I never said for a Ritualist to use 4 attributes. I have seen groups work with QZ and other ranger spirits would screw over most groups in such a way that it didn't screw themselves over. All I have been saying the entire time is not to rule out skils so easily especially when you have not experimented with them.

I have a pve ritualist, Its even a channeling ritualist, in FoW armor.
I know channeling magic. And guess what? Its crap in pvp, plain and simple.
You DID say to use both QZ and Serpents, scroll up and see how you suggested to get spirits back quicker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Then you also say: "Yeah, send out your warrior with no self heals to get slaughtered! He will get slaughtered by a trap bomb! He will die to an IWAY warrior! He will get killed by the necros!" I can easily say that my ?/? can kill the order necros. The same way you say your IWAY people can kill my W/? or ?/?.

Eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

You also keep saying I cannot argue about OoA because I don't see what YOU see in how it is a broken skill. Have you ever tried to use channeling magic or just looked at it? Have you ever tried ANYthing but the mainstream? Or do you assume what people tell you is the only/best possibilities?

I look at skills every day. I pvp, every day.
Theres a reason why certain skills are used and others arent, the ones that ARENT used is because no one has found an effective way to use some, this is true, however, with probably 1/4 million people looking at the same skills, every day, theres a REASON why certain ones are always used, and most of them are NEVER used. Simply put because they are CRAP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Signet of Creation -

Your right, a person getting hit by lots of damage, signet of creation's regen wouldn't do much. But Union, for one, only takes 15 damage or less each time it works, 7 regen = 28 health a second. That is bound to keep the spirit alive longer.

You MIGHT get a second or two. MIGHT. Last I checked, Union and Shelter dont last very long as is, sacrificing the recharge for something that MIGHT give you an extra 2-3 hits on shelter? Not worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Me ignoring updates-

No, but I guess you like to make your own updates up. 40% is max cap of healing, which can still be passed. And 50% is max cap of skill recharge, which can be passed as well. Check out the updates page to see for yourself.

Your right, I won't see a Rit in top 100 guilds using Signet of Spirits, but that doesn't mean that Elite doesn't have it's place.

My mistake, you are correct on the healing effectivness / recharge caps.
But the elite still isnt effective in pve, let alone pvp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

I think I addressed everything, if not, repeat it or tell me.

Fire doesn't even need buffing. It's damage is nuts the way it is. On level 16 almost every spell damage for over 100, easily. Not to mention most the those spells are Area of Effect, so they usually hit mroe then one target. I do however think the Mind spells need to lose the Exhaustion.

Fire has to be used with dual attune. (unless you are starbursting, and then you dont run MShower, Meteor, etc.)

Whatever, I have nothing against fire, thats someone elses bag.

Its not that I disagree with you, its that you simply do not see the skills in use. You talk about them on paper, where everything is perfect circumstances. In the game, it never is.

Here are my two concerns:
OoA is overpowered. Period. For all the reasons I stated. If you cannot see why I say it is, fight against smart IWAYs as a monk.

Channeling Magic, the ritualist attribute line is UNDERpowered. Why? Because it simply DOESNT DO ENOUGH DAMAGE FOR THE ATTRIBUTE/ENERGY INVESTMENTS.
This is plain to see even on paper. All their skills do lightning damage, not holy, not shadow, so armor works against their skills.

Please, before you comment back to this, get some real pvp experience.

Wrynn · Jul 30, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

So you've never seen Starbursters?

Seriously Wrynn... how much ranting do you want? The thread name says RATIONAL and you want 10000 storage limits... Who the **** needs that much of any 1 material. 250 is fine... Its not gonna stop the stupid hoarding i had on my necro with over 4000 wood. But its stores what you need. Why exactly are you whining that 'it costs more than that for any 1 suit'? Since when did you buy 15k sets for all your characters at the same time? And if you did, why would you need to store your materials if you could simply buy them with all your money...

Dye storage... tbh i don't care. Its 8 slots. 8 slots on a storage character isn't much.

Keys... yeah it'd be nice but theres not really any reason to be holding keys when you don't intend to use them.

Extra storage slots i'd agree with though. 20slots for 4 characters was ok, 20 slots for (soon to be) 8 characters is not enough. But if your've just bought 3 more slots... storage character anyone?

Because like I mentioned before, Id rather see a HUGE cap that very few will hit, rather than a cap I maxed on commons 10 minutes after i bought the expansion (and only because it took me 10 min to MOVE everything.)

The rest is all just, id rather use my storage for items (Weapons, collectable drops, etc) than taking up space on keys, dyes, more materials, etc.

Flopjack · Jul 30, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

IWAY Trappers -

Yes, Trappers will run into your group and trap around your wards, but I don't think a flame trap, barb trap or a dust trap blinding the casters will mean victory or loss. It would hurt, but it would be better then standing outside the ward with the IWAY warriors.

Your Ritualist -

I'm glad to hear you have a PvE Rit. And what is a Channeling ritualist, just one who only uses the channeling spells? That isn't making very good use of Channeling magic. Like I said, the damage isn't going to super high, it's not meant to be. I mean, they didn't add freezing time to the Cold damage many of the necro spells do, or the Dervish, does that mean all of those skills are underpowered too?

Your "eh?" -

You keep saying extreme cirsumstances to make my suggestions look worthless. I suggested a Warrior (Possibly) but more likely a ranged person to give the IWAY's Spirit people heck. You said something like: "Oh that will never work, an IWAY (Warrior, necro, trapper etc..) will murder your warrior who has no self heals. I never really specified a build except that maybe someone could keep inturrupting their spirit guy, which would stop their spirits.

So I said: "You say your ?/? (Meaning a person from IWAY) will kill my W/? or ?/?" oh so easily. A balanced warrior won't die so easily from an IWAY warrior just because he is going after their spirits.

But that isn't going anywhere and it is too complicated to explain my thoughts here.... so screw it.

QZ and Serpents -

Sorry, I never said to use them both at the same time. Again, it was two different suggestions of ways to get spirits back faster.

Signet of Creation -

I never said here to replace Rit Lord with this skill. Sig of creation isn't elite for one. This is why I say this is a useful skill:

Lets say a union spirit has 450 health (I don't know the exact health but that doens't matter.) I used 450 health becuase if it were to get hit by at least 15 dmg each time it blocks, it would get hirt 30 times and then die. Lets say it loses 15 health 3 times each second. That would mean it would last about 10 seconds. If you were to quickly use Signet of Creation right after casting Union, at 7 health regeneration, that is +28 health each second. It losses 45 health a second, that would reduce its damage to about 17 health a second. You would increase the life duration to about 26 seconds! That is just a little bit more then 1 or 2 seconds like you suggested. However, if we count in the 2 second cast time for that signet, it will lose a few seconds. Even then, that is still more then doubleing the spirit's duration. And we didn't even replace Ritual Lord. (Which is a good elite, dont get me wrong)

OoA Overpowered -

Even if they did add a 5 seconds recharge, you think that woud make much of a difference?

Someone else's bag -

You don't need to do dual attunement with fire. I use fire quite a bit and I found Glyph of Energy to keep my mana secure a heck of a lot better.

Wrynn · Jul 30, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

IWAY Trappers -

Yes, Trappers will run into your group and trap around your wards, but I don't think a flame trap, barb trap or a dust trap blinding the casters will mean victory or loss. It would hurt, but it would be better then standing outside the ward with the IWAY warriors.
[/QUOTE]

Dust trap + a ranger using a bow = cant stand in wards.
Again, ward camping works in theory really really really well. It doesnt work as well in practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Your Ritualist -

I'm glad to hear you have a PvE Rit. And what is a Channeling ritualist, just one who only uses the channeling spells? That isn't making very good use of Channeling magic. Like I said, the damage isn't going to super high, it's not meant to be. I mean, they didn't add freezing time to the Cold damage many of the necro spells do, or the Dervish, does that mean all of those skills are underpowered too?

No it means Im a PRIMARY channling ritualist, just as if I said "Im a curses necro" Doesnt mean Im 100% Curses / Soul Reap, it simply means that the bulk of what im going to be using comes from the channeling / curses lines respectively.

Necros do cold damage because of grenth, theoretically, so should ritualists (As they bow to grenth as well)
However, not counting elites, necros have FIVE cold damage dealing skills:
Chilblains (which you dont use for the damage)
Bitter Chill
Deathly Chill
Deathly Swarm
Fetid Ground
All have secondary effects that mitigate the cold damage portion of the skill. (hitting three targets, dealing extra damage, recharging instantly, poisoning, whatever.)
But if you are focusing on the death line for damage skills, ehh, you shouldnt.
The vast majority of necro DD skills do one of three things: Direct HP steal, Pure "Damage" or Shadow Damage, which might as well just be "damage" as theres nothing that has inherant weaknesses or buffs against shadow damage (conversly, holy damage does double against undead and bonus damage to tormentors / necrotic armor wearers.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Your "eh?" -

You keep saying extreme cirsumstances to make my suggestions look worthless. I suggested a Warrior (Possibly) but more likely a ranged person to give the IWAY's Spirit people heck. You said something like: "Oh that will never work, an IWAY (Warrior, necro, trapper etc..) will murder your warrior who has no self heals. I never really specified a build except that maybe someone could keep inturrupting their spirit guy, which would stop their spirits.

I dont give extreme circumstances, ask a pvper, every circumstance that ive given is a very real, and very common occurance.
You are giving "perfect" circumstances to try and tell me how my argument is flawed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

So I said: "You say your ?/? (Meaning a person from IWAY) will kill my W/? or ?/?" oh so easily. A balanced warrior won't die so easily from an IWAY warrior just because he is going after their spirits.

But that isn't going anywhere and it is too complicated to explain my thoughts here.... so screw it.

You are still looking at everything on paper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

QZ and Serpents -

Sorry, I never said to use them both at the same time. Again, it was two different suggestions of ways to get spirits back faster.

Which are both possibilities yes, however QZ requires you speccing out everyone else under it. Serpents requires a secondary class and attribute point devotion to make it effective (and a smart team will just spike you halfway every time you use it and cancel it.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Signet of Creation -

I never said here to replace Rit Lord with this skill. Sig of creation isn't elite for one. This is why I say this is a useful skill:

Lets say a union spirit has 450 health (I don't know the exact health but that doens't matter.) I used 450 health becuase if it were to get hit by at least 15 dmg each time it blocks, it would get hirt 30 times and then die. Lets say it loses 15 health 3 times each second. That would mean it would last about 10 seconds. If you were to quickly use Signet of Creation right after casting Union, at 7 health regeneration, that is +28 health each second. It losses 45 health a second, that would reduce its damage to about 17 health a second. You would increase the life duration to about 26 seconds! That is just a little bit more then 1 or 2 seconds like you suggested. However, if we count in the 2 second cast time for that signet, it will lose a few seconds. Even then, that is still more then doubleing the spirit's duration. And we didn't even replace Ritual Lord. (Which is a good elite, dont get me wrong)

I did get two signets you were mentioning mixed up, and i apologize for that, however, on most Rt bars, you dont have room for the signet, let alone time to use it. Ive played a communing rit, and with 4 spirits on your bar, and Rit Lord making them come back 50-60 % faster, you are basically full time spirit spamming. I do see what you are saying as far as giving them the few extra "hits" but its not worth the slot, nor the time investment IMO, but yes, I do see how it could be useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

OoA Overpowered -

Even if they did add a 5 seconds recharge, you think that woud make much of a difference?

I think if they made a 5 second recharge it wouldnt be AS effective under EW, secondly, it needs one of the other two either: end upon removal of one enchant or not trigger with other necro enchants.
Even with these additions, it would STILL be perfectly viable in IWAY, just not as stupidly overpowered as it is now (where one warrior under IWAY effect can strip 5+ enchants off one person.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flopjack

Someone else's bag -

You don't need to do dual attunement with fire. I use fire quite a bit and I found Glyph of Energy to keep my mana secure a heck of a lot better.

Both are viable depending on what you are doing. Or depending on what you are playing against. (Secondary to that-primary eles by far get screwed on non-usable elites.)

eggs0wn · Jul 31, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

I didn't read everything but I like your Key Ring idea. They have "belt pouches" and "bags" for items, why not add a key ring for keys.

majoho · Jul 31, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

A load of the same bullcrap suggestions we have all the time.

I mean keyrings - what is the point? You don't have "permanent" keys in GW and if you hoard keys you should just consider using them and stop farming for a while.

Vahn Roi · Jul 31, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Expand standard storage to 30
Increase Common Material storage cap to 1000 per material
Add Dye storage (perhaps with 5 extra slots for unspecified mixes?)
Add Armor Storage with 20 slots (four full sets; five w/o headgear)(possibly accessable only by the owner of the armor; ei. Schae the Abbout would see his 15k Wanderer's in the Armor tab, while Mister Magnifique would see his 1.5k Enchanter's)

That's pretty much what I want to see. I would also like the stack cap increased to 1000 in general. This would especially be good for materials as 15k armor can sometimes take 400 of one standard material to craft.

Just my two cents.

Delarn · Jul 31, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

More than 250 stack in material storage would be nice. In my guild we made a bank system. So if ppl want something they send me a mail and I get on with the bank they trade in stuff they don't need and I give them stuff they need. I wanted to remove my stuff from the banker so I could store more stuff, like scrolls and runes. But I can't now.
Guild bank would be a good addition and auction house that work like a balthazar priest ... yup yup...

Dr Strangelove · Jul 31, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Sweet Jesus Mary and Joseph, 10,000 of each material? When will any on-bot non-extreme farmer ever use that? You don't want "improved" storage, you want unlimted storage.

That being said, I do agree with the idea of increasing storage size and number of slots increases. If 4 characters = 20 slots, why shouldn't 6 characters = 30 slots? Unfortunately, I don't think they can do this or else the whining brigade will say they are indirectly charging for storage.

Of course, the whining brigade is complaining about lack of storage right now, so screw them and their hypocritical bellyaching.